If you aim to make a classic “1944 Mai Tai,” using rhum agricole won’t do it. The original Mai Tai recipe used only Jamaican rum, Martinique rum was only incorporated under duress, and Martinique rum in Vic's era wasn't rhum agricole. Vic himself said as such!
So I managed to source a couple of bottles of Darboussier but I am not entirely clear what comes close in regards to the jamaican rum component in the second adjusted formula.
I have tried blends of hampden 8, AE12 and smith n cross.
It's hard to know, given what directives we have from Vic himself.
In 1970, he wrote: "1 ounce Trader Vic's Jamaican Rum (15 or 8 year old)"
In 1972 he wrote "dark Jamaican rum"
Not having had Vic's Jamaican rum, I don't know what the flavor profile was. However, we know Vic sourced rums from JWN, so something from JWN circa the 1960s is about the best guess I have.
To that particular point, I'd lean more towards Coruba than Hampden. I know everybody loves highly funk Jamaican rums, and Hampden is the darling of that crowd. But there's little evidence that Vic was using super-funky Jamaicans.
The opposite in fact. In 1970 he wrote:
"surprisingly golden in color, medium bodied, but with the rich pungent flavor particular to the Jamaican blends. The flavor of this great rum wasn,t meant to be overpowered with heavy additions of fruit juices and flavorings."
I assumed you meant Coruba Dark, but maybe that was wrong..? Is there an alternative to the Coruba, preferably something available in Europe, ie not Hamilton
Thank you so much. That gives me some directions, my early days testing of the Darboussier tells me the profiler does not neccesarily call for high funk jamaicans. I do not have Coruba in DK, men I do have wp109 on hand, will try that. Thanks Matt!
I wonder if it's possible to nail down exactly when (within reason) Trader Vic's actually did start using agricole rhum in its Mai Tais. Was it the '80s, as I've seen some references to, or was it the '90s? When did St. James start exporting agricole instead of the previous rum blend that had been used for decades? I think everyone agrees that St. James was Vic's brand of choice. Trader Vic’s Bartender’s Guide (1972 revised edition) recommends St. James Rhum in the Suffering Bastard, but the rum chapter describes it similarly to how it was in 1946: "Similar to Jamaica rums" and "heavy in body, coffee colored, and often, although faintly, have the dry burned flavor of the Demeraras."
These are all great questions. It's possible that the TV corporate records have some of this information, but they'd need to either diligently look themselves or give someone access to the relevant documents.
As for what was happening in Martinique, so far it's murky. I have a collection of "puzzle pieces" that support the transition timeline I've put forth in various forums. However, I'm doubtful that there's a single definitive source that lays out a timeline and addresses all our questions. The folks that created various records and reports decades ago probably had no inkling that somebody would (much later) ask some very narrowly focused questions.
I'd like to hope that Saint-James will let me ask some narrowly targeted questions. But given that my questions might run counter to their current marketing thrust, would they?
I picked up my first bottle of this a couple weeks ago, and I don't know how to describe it other than it tastes like tiki. I can only imagine what Vic thought when he settled upon his blend (or even the JW&N 17-year). I have been trying different blends of rums for Mai Tais for a couple months, but nothing beats this. I admit my defeat.
You make a great point about keeping true to the authenticity of the ingredients for a "1944 Mai Tai". Imagine trying to pass a chicken off as turkey at thanksgiving dinner. It may be delicious and similar poultry, but it is not and never will be a turkey.
That being said there is no way to make a "1944 Mai Tai" since all the 17 year and 15 year Wray & Nephew rum is gone. We can approximate with what we believe to be close. Even Trader Vic started blending rums through the years.
For me the bigger issue is whether or not the drink has ingredients other than rum, Lime juice, orgeat and some variant of triple sec - in the correct proportions. Last week I ordered a 1944 Mai Tai at a bar and it had sweet and sour mix and pineapple juice - it was not only not a "1944" but undrinkable to boot.
> That being said there is no way to make a "1944 Mai Tai" since all the 17 year
Correct. But we can make a "1944 style" Mai Tai, and "morally" that means getting as close as reasonably possible.
If you know the original Jamaican rum, and you have Jamaican rum, but instead use substantially different rum(s), it seems like you're not really following the "intent" of the original Mai Tai.
As I noted in my gatekeeping article, do whatever the hell you want. But if the end result is substantially different than the original spec, just don't call it an "original Mai Tai" or a "1944 Mai Tai."
Matt, I am going to agree to disagree with you on this. I understand your passion on this and somewhat share it. That being said, if you cant get the original Wray & Nephew or the second iteration of Wray & nephew, I don't think swapping out the rum is the issue. All other ingredients being equal and no access to the original ingredients, you are still following the "intent" of the original recipe and can still call it an "original or 1044 Mai Tai". Unfortunately Trader Vic broke all the rules when he bastardized this recipe by making a "1970 Mai Tai" for the Royal Hawaiian hotel. Which today leads to mass confusion and horrible cocktails in the guise of a Mai Tai.
I may have been unclear in my comment. I was stating that a Mai Tai should not be called a "1944 Mai Tai" if it has any ingredients other than rum, lime, orgeat and triple sec. I think that the rum selection is not a majorly concerning issue, as the recipe is still true, albeit that it has a variable in the rum ingredient. The drink will still be close to what i would expect. Adding other ingredients such as pineapple, orange or other juices may make a variant of the 1970 Mai Tai but not a variant of the 1944 Mai Tai.
I also agree with you. Everybody should drink what they enjoy.
A question: my summer holidays are always spent in France, and out of curiosity I got a bottle of Rhum Negrita (not a great name these days). Do you think it has any resemblance to what Trader Vic suggested as a sub 75 years ago? (Or should it be reserved for baking :-)
I have a feeling that Negrita may have gone downhill since Vic was using it. But no hard evidence to back that up. It seems to have always been a blend of rums from Martinique, Guadeloupe, and Reunion. And mostly if not entirely Molasses rum.
So I managed to source a couple of bottles of Darboussier but I am not entirely clear what comes close in regards to the jamaican rum component in the second adjusted formula.
I have tried blends of hampden 8, AE12 and smith n cross.
Do you have an input Matt?
It's hard to know, given what directives we have from Vic himself.
In 1970, he wrote: "1 ounce Trader Vic's Jamaican Rum (15 or 8 year old)"
In 1972 he wrote "dark Jamaican rum"
Not having had Vic's Jamaican rum, I don't know what the flavor profile was. However, we know Vic sourced rums from JWN, so something from JWN circa the 1960s is about the best guess I have.
To that particular point, I'd lean more towards Coruba than Hampden. I know everybody loves highly funk Jamaican rums, and Hampden is the darling of that crowd. But there's little evidence that Vic was using super-funky Jamaicans.
The opposite in fact. In 1970 he wrote:
"surprisingly golden in color, medium bodied, but with the rich pungent flavor particular to the Jamaican blends. The flavor of this great rum wasn,t meant to be overpowered with heavy additions of fruit juices and flavorings."
I assumed you meant Coruba Dark, but maybe that was wrong..? Is there an alternative to the Coruba, preferably something available in Europe, ie not Hamilton
Thank you so much. That gives me some directions, my early days testing of the Darboussier tells me the profiler does not neccesarily call for high funk jamaicans. I do not have Coruba in DK, men I do have wp109 on hand, will try that. Thanks Matt!
I wonder if it's possible to nail down exactly when (within reason) Trader Vic's actually did start using agricole rhum in its Mai Tais. Was it the '80s, as I've seen some references to, or was it the '90s? When did St. James start exporting agricole instead of the previous rum blend that had been used for decades? I think everyone agrees that St. James was Vic's brand of choice. Trader Vic’s Bartender’s Guide (1972 revised edition) recommends St. James Rhum in the Suffering Bastard, but the rum chapter describes it similarly to how it was in 1946: "Similar to Jamaica rums" and "heavy in body, coffee colored, and often, although faintly, have the dry burned flavor of the Demeraras."
These are all great questions. It's possible that the TV corporate records have some of this information, but they'd need to either diligently look themselves or give someone access to the relevant documents.
As for what was happening in Martinique, so far it's murky. I have a collection of "puzzle pieces" that support the transition timeline I've put forth in various forums. However, I'm doubtful that there's a single definitive source that lays out a timeline and addresses all our questions. The folks that created various records and reports decades ago probably had no inkling that somebody would (much later) ask some very narrowly focused questions.
I'd like to hope that Saint-James will let me ask some narrowly targeted questions. But given that my questions might run counter to their current marketing thrust, would they?
I picked up my first bottle of this a couple weeks ago, and I don't know how to describe it other than it tastes like tiki. I can only imagine what Vic thought when he settled upon his blend (or even the JW&N 17-year). I have been trying different blends of rums for Mai Tais for a couple months, but nothing beats this. I admit my defeat.
Are you talking about the Denizen Merchant's Reserve?
Sorry, yes, the Denizen Merchant's Reserve.
Matt,
You make a great point about keeping true to the authenticity of the ingredients for a "1944 Mai Tai". Imagine trying to pass a chicken off as turkey at thanksgiving dinner. It may be delicious and similar poultry, but it is not and never will be a turkey.
That being said there is no way to make a "1944 Mai Tai" since all the 17 year and 15 year Wray & Nephew rum is gone. We can approximate with what we believe to be close. Even Trader Vic started blending rums through the years.
For me the bigger issue is whether or not the drink has ingredients other than rum, Lime juice, orgeat and some variant of triple sec - in the correct proportions. Last week I ordered a 1944 Mai Tai at a bar and it had sweet and sour mix and pineapple juice - it was not only not a "1944" but undrinkable to boot.
I
> That being said there is no way to make a "1944 Mai Tai" since all the 17 year
Correct. But we can make a "1944 style" Mai Tai, and "morally" that means getting as close as reasonably possible.
If you know the original Jamaican rum, and you have Jamaican rum, but instead use substantially different rum(s), it seems like you're not really following the "intent" of the original Mai Tai.
As I noted in my gatekeeping article, do whatever the hell you want. But if the end result is substantially different than the original spec, just don't call it an "original Mai Tai" or a "1944 Mai Tai."
Matt, I am going to agree to disagree with you on this. I understand your passion on this and somewhat share it. That being said, if you cant get the original Wray & Nephew or the second iteration of Wray & nephew, I don't think swapping out the rum is the issue. All other ingredients being equal and no access to the original ingredients, you are still following the "intent" of the original recipe and can still call it an "original or 1044 Mai Tai". Unfortunately Trader Vic broke all the rules when he bastardized this recipe by making a "1970 Mai Tai" for the Royal Hawaiian hotel. Which today leads to mass confusion and horrible cocktails in the guise of a Mai Tai.
The original 1944 recipe does not -- pineapple and orange were added when Vic moved the recipe to Hawaii in the 1970's.
This is not to say that you should not enjoy your Mai Tai with orange and pineapple!
Joe,
I may have been unclear in my comment. I was stating that a Mai Tai should not be called a "1944 Mai Tai" if it has any ingredients other than rum, lime, orgeat and triple sec. I think that the rum selection is not a majorly concerning issue, as the recipe is still true, albeit that it has a variable in the rum ingredient. The drink will still be close to what i would expect. Adding other ingredients such as pineapple, orange or other juices may make a variant of the 1970 Mai Tai but not a variant of the 1944 Mai Tai.
I also agree with you. Everybody should drink what they enjoy.
A question: my summer holidays are always spent in France, and out of curiosity I got a bottle of Rhum Negrita (not a great name these days). Do you think it has any resemblance to what Trader Vic suggested as a sub 75 years ago? (Or should it be reserved for baking :-)
I have a feeling that Negrita may have gone downhill since Vic was using it. But no hard evidence to back that up. It seems to have always been a blend of rums from Martinique, Guadeloupe, and Reunion. And mostly if not entirely Molasses rum.
Thanks! I’ll try experimenting a bit with the Negrita. Can’t hurt … :-)
Got a "all-in-one" solution to this idea :) You could start with SBS Origin Jamaica Cane Juice - if you like the direction, then switch to agricole :)